Plato book iii noble lie

The noble lie 23 oct 2017 16 feb 2020 great books guy at the outset of book iii, socrates declares the topic will be focused on the gods, or the stories, the education, of the citizens of the city. All greek text quoted is taken from the platonis opera, ed. How to justify plato s noble lie i am writing an essay, and i have addressed the criticism of it as advocating a totalitarian state. If we accept that socrates is telling a noble lie at the end of book iii, how are supposed to understand him when, in book iv, he tells us that the core of justice is the disposition of everyone to keep doing what he is better at doing. First, we encounter the education of the guardians of the city. The noble lie is to serve as charter myth for platos good city. The question brings to mind the noble lie found in plato. The lie is necessary, plato argues, in order to keep a stable social structure. Where in plato s republic does he mention the noble lie.

What i would like to bring into my essay however is a discussion of what allows the guardians to lie and the citizens not to. It is a myth about human origins in the most literal immediate sense. In book iii of the republic, written by plato, there is a discussion between socrates and glaucon about telling a noble lie to the citizens of the republic. Now, in furthering his concept of the ideal state, socrates divides the citizens into three groups. This is in many ways the logical extension or the culmination of the censorship program that socrates begins in book ii. Such a tongueincheek question, the reference to a single bold flight of invention is what has come to be known as commonly rendered by noble lie, a selfcontradictory expression which is no more applicable to plato s comparatively. Plato is telling the astute reader that most, if not all, societies operate and function through a grand myth. The noble lie is a concept originated by plato as described in the republic. Second, because the phrase noble lie is such a vivid oxymoron, the two other adjectives qualifying the adjective noble are habitually excised from the quoted text and omitted from discussion of plato s doctrine no doubt because they make the tendentious oxymoron less vivid. The noble lie was a concept introduced by plato that he described as the fostering of such a belief that will make them care more for the city and for one another. Plato did not believe most people were smart enough to look after their own and society.

The noble lie is a lie because it doesnt correspond with the facts as we typically understand them. In the second half of book ii, socrates is put on trial, reluctantly defending justice against the false accusations of the athenian brothers, glaucon and adeimantus. Book ii part 2, book iii, book iv, book v, and some of book vi and vii, on naturally occurring social classes in an ideal city state. Everything we typically think of as truth is a lie. Socrates concludes book iii with a few other stipulations having to do with the. Ready to call it a night, theyre intercepted by a whole gang of their acquaintances, who eventually convince them to come hang out at polemarchuss house and have a nice, long chat. Book iii, 386a412b socrates continues to discuss the content of stories that can be told to the guardians, moving on to stories about heroes. Learn vocabulary, terms, and more with flashcards, games, and other study tools.

Well have to discuss this further when plato elaborates on his theory of the goodfor i am almost certainly basing my judgment on a simplified, perhaps even caricatured, conception of his metaphysics of forms. Plato s inclusion of the noble isnt a recommendation for why such a lie is necessary for the ideal commonwealth. Plato republic the noble lie essay 1173 words cram. Socrates introduction of the republics notorious noble lie comes near the end of book 3. Our story begins as socrates and his friend glaucon head home from a festival. Socrates mentions the noble lie to glaucon near the end of book iii, of the republic, at 414b 414c. New thinking allowed with jeffrey mishlove 25,612 views. Sometimes he modifies them, to a greater or lesser extent, while other times he combines themthis is the case, for instance, of the noble lie republic 414b415d, which is a combination of the cadmeian myth of autochthony and the hesiodic myth of ages. The purpose of this article is both to examine plato s own use of the noble lie in politics and to examine it within the context of contemporary political philosophy, a context wherein at least three different assessments of the noble lie are possible. The true lie, in fact, could be said to inform all of plato s work in that he insists on the existence of an ultimate truth which one needs to. Middlebusy college s ear the end of book iii of the republic. But the argument for that will emerge later, in section ii. Outline of the section of book vii of the republic of plato on the subject of education. Western thought i platos republic, books iii and iv name.

Myth of the metals republic book 3 summary youtube. Others read into it an allusion to egyptian castes. By contrast, platos definition of a lie merely in words very much resembles what he says about art in book ten of the republic 596a598d. Quite a few comments have been posted about the republic. Rather, the inclusion of the noble lie is an extension of platonic irony. He suggests they examine the question of justice in a larger way, not like men who are squinting at small letters from a distance. Plato then goes on from this point to elaborate further on the concept which relates back to the argument concerning justice in republic book i and informs the rest of the dialogue through book x. The phrase noble lie does not even occur in the text of platos republic. Platos noble lie and the trickster with jason reza jorjani duration.

Pater, who translates the passage plato and platonism, p. The noble lie and followership pennsylvania state university. In book iii plato s socrates discusses what scholars refer to as the noble lie what is it and why does he think we need it. Book iii book iii republic january 12, 2020 summary this week i read book iii of plato s republic. Learn exactly what happened in this chapter, scene, or section of the republic and what it means. The purpose of this noble lie will be to persuade the city to love and defend their city more. The myth of er is essentially the 411 on the afterlife.

It is a political teaching, to be affirmed at all levels of the citizenry, aiming at the preservation of national tradition. Western thought i plato s republic, books iii and iv name. Hence, when translated as noble lie, the plato doctrine is corrupted in two. The noble lie chapter 6 the cambridge companion to platos. It tells the story of a man named er who comes back from the dead and reports on everything he saw. The key passage in plato regarding the noble lie is republic 414bc, which has.

The most important function of this class of stories is to immunize the young guardians against a fear of death. This is the first part of the republic where we get some really interesting theory beyond just an. Socrates continues to discuss the content of stories that can be told to the guardians, moving on to stories about heroes. This lecture turns to one of the most notorious parts of platos republic called the noble lie, found in book iii. In book iii of the republic, written by plato, there is a discussion between socrates and glaucon about telling a noble lie to the.

Heroes must never be presented as fearing death or as preferring slavery to death. By this time, it is plain that platos plan for the ideal state has manifested itself. Of course, one condition of plato s doctrine of the noble lie, as it seems to methough this is a condition that he never states explicitlyis that the true philosopher, the philosopher in the highest and truest sense, can never believe the noble lie, for plato points out again and again in the republic that the philosopher is one who. Where in platos republic does he mention the noble lie. The noble lie is the public deception that plato has his socrates propose at the end of the republic s book iii. Around line 414d, we begin to read of what has been called the noble lie. Were going over book iii, and my american student is asking about the noble lie, and how that can go with philosophy.

Plato s republic book v socrates tries to avoid being drowned by three waves of responses to his controversial. Just like the myth of metals, its a noble lie meant to convince people who dont, or cant, make their way through the republic that living a just and thoughtful life is the way to go. Im operating under the assumption that once the noble lie is known to be one, there will be a. The noble lie completes socrates description of the education of the young, and of the need to select the ones suited to s erving as guardians and auxiliaries.

The myth of the metals october 22, 2010 february 22, 2016 neel burton in the republic, having discussed the class of producers and the class of guardians, socrates goes on to discuss the third and last class of citizen in his ideal state, the class of rulers. The philosopherkings are a sort of superguardian class, the only one who knows the noble lie is a lie. The excerpt below reflects a portion of the recollected dialogue between. Plato s concept of the noble lie needs to be understood in context it isnt fully captured by the gloss of a falsehood in service of a greater good in plato s view, our entire world is an illusion. Book iii, 414c 417b the noble lie the ship of state. At the outset of book iii, socrates declares the topic will be focused on the gods, or the stories, the education, of the citizens of the city. The internet classics archive the republic by plato. Irwins fine book on platos moral theory, no harm is done in that irwin does. What we usually mean when we refer to the noble lie in plato s republic is found at the end of book iii. Justice and intergenerational tension in platos republic. Platos lie in the soul ancient history encyclopedia. Designed to imbue their souls with a sense of responsibility and care, the noble can outweigh their political reluctance, and turn their eyes back to the city.